Curse

GhostXero · Jul 08, 2005, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Remove the refund points, I hate them!

Nomad Ninja · Jul 09, 2005, 12:16 AM // 00:16

I think its good to have refund point, but . . . .
like they say, I want to gain a refund points while i play PvP. 1 faction = 1 refund seems good.

EternalTempest · Jul 09, 2005, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Keep em, One of the things that would hurt PvE is no refund system, reason being is say you want to be an air mage, not going to happen at the start of a new character, they way PvE comes across the skill types demands a system to be able to change your attributes by there very design.

During the beta's seeing what would of ended up a point system thats' like diablo II skill tree system was something that almost turned me off from the game until refund points were implemented in the later beta's.

calendae · Jul 09, 2005, 07:47 AM // 07:47

I don't see a problem with making it so you can change up attributes in town for free. Your still stuck the way you are in the wild and in battle. So who cares if you have to gain X amount of xp before you can change up again. The refund system seems silly to me.

Aaaaagh · Jul 09, 2005, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

Why not just make it like skills where you can only modify your attributes while in a city. Remove refund points alltogether.

Bing Bing Bing.

The Toast God has spoken...you WILL listen.

vLo · Jul 09, 2005, 10:31 AM // 10:31

/sign, but: While in city, you get unlimited refunds. But while outside, 24 would be the max. This way it would work with the skill changing as well.

calendae · Jul 09, 2005, 10:45 AM // 10:45

That works for me. I just find the refund to be unnessisary.

Storm Shadow · Jul 09, 2005, 10:48 AM // 10:48

mmmm toast.

but anyway i totally agree i dont see a real reason for the refund points to not come back in towns.

Thanas · Jul 09, 2005, 02:24 PM // 14:24

I made a post on this yesterday. I don't think many people really grasp the problem at hand. Granted you can make PvP characters and delete them. Thats great! However if you are playing arenas in PvE (i.e you are a casual PvP'er) it is a different matter. You can't delete your character and sometimes you want to changes your attribs to try out a new tactic.

So what do you do?

Well say you've got 24 refund points and you want to do a complete overhaul of your character because you're PvE is not up to scratch in arena e.g you are playing death necro. You spend all your points and join up with a team and play.

After playing a few games you decide you want to change some attribs and whats this?

Oh dear zero refund points.

Now what?

Oh I've got to go out and play several missions to get XP to get my refund points back. How long will that take? About 1 hour. Now for anyone who questions this, I have played mines of Moladune and killed everything and only got 16 refund points. That took over an hour. And yeah if you play on FoW or UW you get them all back. However if you're European then you'll know how difficult this is. Also you have to play for around 3 hours. I only want refund points!!!!

So After an hour I go back to PvP and change skills, still not happy. Oh now I got to spend another hour getting points back. I mean come on!!!! This game is meant to be based on skills, the manipulation of these skills and about co-ordianted game play. By not having refund points in Arena's the message everyones getting is you should stick with you're character and not experiment and keep to the skills you have. And this attitude does not make for a good player.

Now I know some of you will be saying why don't you make a PvP only character. Well as I mentioned before I'm a reasonably casual gamer and I feel that arenas suit my style of playing. It is not too serious. I get the impression that most who play PvP only are hardcore players and expect a lot from others and this is not for me.

So in conclusion why is there no system implemented that allows you to gain XP in PvE areanas. It is not an unreasonable request and I'm not saying that points should be easy to come by. What I am saying is that these points should be available whilst playing arena and not just in the PvE world.

Loviatar · Jul 09, 2005, 02:40 PM // 14:40

is there anybody here who DOESNT believe that this has been already brought to the devs attention by the people on the alpha/beta who feel exactly the same as you do?

they see also the same demands by a small group of people that post the same thing on every site they can hoping that it will suddenly change the devs long term plans

also a truly casual player will not be changing things around much but simply grabbing a template that strikes their fancy jump in, have some fun win or lose and then do something else

WE NEED AN ACCEPTED DEFINITION OF *CASUAL*

Thanas · Jul 09, 2005, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Casual implies 'being without ceremony or formalility i.e. relaxed'. Now Arena differs from PvP only in that there are end rewards which demonstrate your skills as a player. So from this we can state PvP only is a competion where a competition is 'the act of competing, as for profit or a prize; rivalry.' whilst arena is not. Competition is not synonomous with a relaxed attitude. Thus a competion is not a casual event. From this we can infer that PvP only is not casual whilst arena not meeting the criteria for competition is.

Haloknight9 · Jul 09, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

Why not just make it like skills where you can only modify your attributes while in a city. Remove refund points alltogether.

Exactly, this would solve all problems. Including the main problem they are trying to prevent in the first place, little uber geeks bringing a load of skills with them to a battle and changing thier attribute points mid battle as they see fit.

Chev of Hardass · Jul 09, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm Shadow

mmmm toast.

but anyway i totally agree i dont see a real reason for the refund points to not come back in towns.

How many ways can it be said?

W/Mos, Mo/W, Ele/Mo..... well those that can farm can use the system the way it is.

I can not believe that they took the Exp out of the PvP areas, that was a shot in the nuts for people that play their PvE built characters in PvP. I thought part of the reason we could get spiffy armor and weapons was to show them off in PvE and PvP?????

Elijah2104 · Jul 13, 2005, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Do you still get xp at the top level even though you cannot level any higher?

arnansnow · Jul 13, 2005, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elijah2104

Do you still get xp at the top level even though you cannot level any higher?

You still get xp, even if you are level 20. You need to be able to still get xp to be able to get the skill points, which require you to "level up" after you are already level 20.

Ba Ne · Jul 13, 2005, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

Why not just make it like skills where you can only modify your attributes while in a city. Remove refund points alltogether.

I agree.

Refund points are counterproductive to what this game is about: skill, not time played. They're nothing but speedbumps in an otherwise smooth system. Get rid of them and allow infinite attribute changes in towns to bring the attribute system inline with the skill system.

Chev of Hardass · Jul 13, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

Why not just make it like skills where you can only modify your attributes while in a city. Remove refund points alltogether.

Can I sign twice?

viet · Jul 13, 2005, 05:58 PM // 17:58

no refund means permanance to me.
like in diablo2. then people would be more careful what they spend points on.

they giv us too many refund, & they regenerate way too fast!

Stauf · Jul 13, 2005, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tengoku No Yushosha

Oh my...another person whos whining about something. *sigh* First, for pvp, you should use a PVP character, so its easier for your attribute points. Second, you should choose a specific path you wish to use (-In your case, Illusion or Domination-). If you can't choose either, then don't use a Mesmer. Third, your thread topic is WAY off since your discussing about YOUR problem. (-FYI don't say anything about my post-)

I know! It's ridiculous right? I mean look at this forum here! It's COMLPETELY filled with whining!!! People offering suggestions and opinions and whatnot! It's mad I tells ya'!

I think, for the sake of us all, you should go to all the threads here and stop the whining! You can do it! You've made a great start here! I believe in you!

GranDeWun · Jul 13, 2005, 06:55 PM // 18:55

I've yet to hear a (good) reason for having the refund points. And if there is a reason, why not set similar restraints on skill swaps? "Ooops, I can only swap 1 skill every X exp points, better be careful..."

Illogical. Allow infinite attribute shuffling in town, none in missions, just like skills.